Bug report: Broken scaling on some SFP receive power graphs
Hi Observium team,
We're having issues with some of the generated graphs. Some of our devices report the light level received by SFPs using mW (rather than dBm). We are on the latest stable revision (13582).
Issue 1: The graphs generated by Observium for these sensors usually show an excessive scale of at least -100 mW to 100 mW when the data in the specified time interval are entirely within the range 100 nW to 1 mW and usually only a small chunk of that. The calculated minimum and maximum values shown below the graph are correct. These graphs worked properly in the past with a prior version of Observium.
Issue 2: Selecting and deselecting the Force Autoscale option appears to have no effect on the generated graph or displayed rrd graph command. Manually running the generated rrd graph command after removing the "--alt-autoscale" option results in a good graph.
Here is the raw SNMP output for one of the these sensors showing a current value of 0.5560mW: ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorType.1000004631 = INTEGER: watts(6) ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorScale.1000004631 = INTEGER: milli(8) ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorPrecision.1000004631 = INTEGER: 4 ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorValue.1000004631 = INTEGER: 5560 ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorOperStatus.1000004631 = INTEGER: ok(1)
Corwin
so many words, but no pictures.
Corwin Ziegler Hunts via observium wrote on 2024-06-25 19:13:
Hi Observium team,
We're having issues with some of the generated graphs. Some of our devices report the light level received by SFPs using mW (rather than dBm). We are on the latest stable revision (13582).
Issue 1: The graphs generated by Observium for these sensors usually show an excessive scale of at least -100 mW to 100 mW when the data in the specified time interval are entirely within the range 100 nW to 1 mW and usually only a small chunk of that. The calculated minimum and maximum values shown below the graph are correct. These graphs worked properly in the past with a prior version of Observium.
Issue 2: Selecting and deselecting the Force Autoscale option appears to have no effect on the generated graph or displayed rrd graph command. Manually running the generated rrd graph command after removing the "--alt-autoscale" option results in a good graph.
Here is the raw SNMP output for one of the these sensors showing a current value of 0.5560mW: ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorType.1000004631 = INTEGER: watts(6) ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorScale.1000004631 = INTEGER: milli(8) ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorPrecision.1000004631 = INTEGER: 4 ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorValue.1000004631 = INTEGER: 5560 ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorOperStatus.1000004631 = INTEGER: ok(1)
Corwin
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Pictures attached.
On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 11:47 AM Adam Armstrong via observium < observium@lists.observium.org> wrote:
so many words, but no pictures.
Corwin Ziegler Hunts via observium wrote on 2024-06-25 19:13:
Hi Observium team,
We're having issues with some of the generated graphs. Some of our devices report the light level received by SFPs using mW (rather than dBm). We are on the latest stable revision (13582).
Issue 1: The graphs generated by Observium for these sensors usually show an excessive scale of at least -100 mW to 100 mW when the data in the specified time interval are entirely within the range 100 nW to 1 mW and usually only a small chunk of that. The calculated minimum and maximum values shown below the graph are correct. These graphs worked properly in the past with a prior version of Observium.
Issue 2: Selecting and deselecting the Force Autoscale option appears to have no effect on the generated graph or displayed rrd graph command. Manually running the generated rrd graph command after removing the "--alt-autoscale" option results in a good graph.
Here is the raw SNMP output for one of the these sensors showing a current value of 0.5560mW: ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorType.1000004631 = INTEGER: watts(6) ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorScale.1000004631 = INTEGER: milli(8) ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorPrecision.1000004631 = INTEGER: 4 ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorValue.1000004631 = INTEGER: 5560 ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorOperStatus.1000004631 = INTEGER: ok(1)
Corwin
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Is there any guidance towards resolving these issues? Manually logging in to the Observium server to generate graphs every time someone needs to investigate these SFP light levels is disruptive and time consuming. Just being able to prevent the broken "--alt-autoscale" option from being passed to rrd from within the web UI (issue #2) would help significantly. We have a Professional subscription.
Corwin
On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 2:03 PM Corwin Ziegler Hunts < corwin.ziegler.hunts@nextlevel.net> wrote:
Pictures attached.
On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 11:47 AM Adam Armstrong via observium < observium@lists.observium.org> wrote:
so many words, but no pictures.
Corwin Ziegler Hunts via observium wrote on 2024-06-25 19:13:
Hi Observium team,
We're having issues with some of the generated graphs. Some of our devices report the light level received by SFPs using mW (rather than dBm). We are on the latest stable revision (13582).
Issue 1: The graphs generated by Observium for these sensors usually show an excessive scale of at least -100 mW to 100 mW when the data in the specified time interval are entirely within the range 100 nW to 1 mW and usually only a small chunk of that. The calculated minimum and maximum values shown below the graph are correct. These graphs worked properly in the past with a prior version of Observium.
Issue 2: Selecting and deselecting the Force Autoscale option appears to have no effect on the generated graph or displayed rrd graph command. Manually running the generated rrd graph command after removing the "--alt-autoscale" option results in a good graph.
Here is the raw SNMP output for one of the these sensors showing a current value of 0.5560mW: ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorType.1000004631 = INTEGER: watts(6) ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorScale.1000004631 = INTEGER: milli(8) ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorPrecision.1000004631 = INTEGER: 4 ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorValue.1000004631 = INTEGER: 5560 ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorOperStatus.1000004631 = INTEGER: ok(1)
Corwin
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I can't think of any really good ways to handle this. The way the graphs are generated doesn't make having a per-type autoscale setting easy.
The "autoscale" button in the UI forces it on for those graphs where it's normally off.
You could try removing the 'snr' from the case statement setting the scale min/max from html/includes/graphs/sensor/graph.inc.php and see if it improves rendering for these graphs (without breaking the rest of the snr graphs).
If that doesn't improve it, perhaps we need an explicit toggle to turn the autoscale off, though the logic for the autoscale decision code is already pretty messy and confusing.
adam.
Corwin Ziegler Hunts via observium wrote on 2024-07-27 00:54:
Is there any guidance towards resolving these issues? Manually logging in to the Observium server to generate graphs every time someone needs to investigate these SFP light levels is disruptive and time consuming. Just being able to prevent the broken "--alt-autoscale" option from being passed to rrd from within the web UI (issue #2) would help significantly. We have a Professional subscription.
Corwin
On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 2:03 PM Corwin Ziegler Hunts <corwin.ziegler.hunts@nextlevel.net mailto:corwin.ziegler.hunts@nextlevel.net> wrote:
Pictures attached. On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 11:47 AM Adam Armstrong via observium <observium@lists.observium.org <mailto:observium@lists.observium.org>> wrote: so many words, but no pictures. Corwin Ziegler Hunts via observium wrote on 2024-06-25 19:13:
Hi Observium team, We're having issues with some of the generated graphs. Some of our devices report the light level received by SFPs using mW (rather than dBm). We are on the latest stable revision (13582). Issue 1: The graphs generated by Observium for these sensors usually show an excessive scale of at least -100 mW to 100 mW when the data in the specified time interval are entirely within the range 100 nW to 1 mW and usually only a small chunk of that. The calculated minimum and maximum values shown below the graph are correct. These graphs worked properly in the past with a prior version of Observium. Issue 2: Selecting and deselecting the Force Autoscale option appears to have no effect on the generated graph or displayed rrd graph command. Manually running the generated rrd graph command after removing the "--alt-autoscale" option results in a good graph. Here is the raw SNMP output for one of the these sensors showing a current value of 0.5560mW: ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorType.1000004631 = INTEGER: watts(6) ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorScale.1000004631 = INTEGER: milli(8) ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorPrecision.1000004631 = INTEGER: 4 ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorValue.1000004631 = INTEGER: 5560 ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorOperStatus.1000004631 = INTEGER: ok(1) Corwin _______________________________________________ observium mailing list --observium@lists.observium.org <mailto:observium@lists.observium.org> To unsubscribe send an email toobservium-leave@lists.observium.org <mailto:observium-leave@lists.observium.org>
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These sensors show up as power sensors rather than as dBm (or SNR).
Could the "autoscale" button simply toggle whether the "--alt-autoscale" option is set? With the default state of the toggle coming from the current logic?
On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 8:09 PM Adam Armstrong adama@observium.org wrote:
I can't think of any really good ways to handle this. The way the graphs are generated doesn't make having a per-type autoscale setting easy.
The "autoscale" button in the UI forces it on for those graphs where it's normally off.
You could try removing the 'snr' from the case statement setting the scale min/max from html/includes/graphs/sensor/graph.inc.php and see if it improves rendering for these graphs (without breaking the rest of the snr graphs).
If that doesn't improve it, perhaps we need an explicit toggle to turn the autoscale off, though the logic for the autoscale decision code is already pretty messy and confusing.
adam.
Corwin Ziegler Hunts via observium wrote on 2024-07-27 00:54:
Is there any guidance towards resolving these issues? Manually logging in to the Observium server to generate graphs every time someone needs to investigate these SFP light levels is disruptive and time consuming. Just being able to prevent the broken "--alt-autoscale" option from being passed to rrd from within the web UI (issue #2) would help significantly. We have a Professional subscription.
Corwin
On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 2:03 PM Corwin Ziegler Hunts < corwin.ziegler.hunts@nextlevel.net> wrote:
Pictures attached.
On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 11:47 AM Adam Armstrong via observium < observium@lists.observium.org> wrote:
so many words, but no pictures.
Corwin Ziegler Hunts via observium wrote on 2024-06-25 19:13:
Hi Observium team,
We're having issues with some of the generated graphs. Some of our devices report the light level received by SFPs using mW (rather than dBm). We are on the latest stable revision (13582).
Issue 1: The graphs generated by Observium for these sensors usually show an excessive scale of at least -100 mW to 100 mW when the data in the specified time interval are entirely within the range 100 nW to 1 mW and usually only a small chunk of that. The calculated minimum and maximum values shown below the graph are correct. These graphs worked properly in the past with a prior version of Observium.
Issue 2: Selecting and deselecting the Force Autoscale option appears to have no effect on the generated graph or displayed rrd graph command. Manually running the generated rrd graph command after removing the "--alt-autoscale" option results in a good graph.
Here is the raw SNMP output for one of the these sensors showing a current value of 0.5560mW: ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorType.1000004631 = INTEGER: watts(6) ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorScale.1000004631 = INTEGER: milli(8) ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorPrecision.1000004631 = INTEGER: 4 ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorValue.1000004631 = INTEGER: 5560 ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorOperStatus.1000004631 = INTEGER: ok(1)
Corwin
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Try r13609!
adam.
Corwin Ziegler Hunts via observium wrote on 2024-08-05 20:13:
These sensors show up as power sensors rather than as dBm (or SNR).
Could the "autoscale" button simply toggle whether the "--alt-autoscale" option is set? With the default state of the toggle coming from the current logic?
On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 8:09 PM Adam Armstrong <adama@observium.org mailto:adama@observium.org> wrote:
I can't think of any really good ways to handle this. The way the graphs are generated doesn't make having a per-type autoscale setting easy. The "autoscale" button in the UI forces it on for those graphs where it's normally off. You could try removing the 'snr' from the case statement setting the scale min/max from html/includes/graphs/sensor/graph.inc.php and see if it improves rendering for these graphs (without breaking the rest of the snr graphs). If that doesn't improve it, perhaps we need an explicit toggle to turn the autoscale off, though the logic for the autoscale decision code is already pretty messy and confusing. adam. Corwin Ziegler Hunts via observium wrote on 2024-07-27 00:54:
Is there any guidance towards resolving these issues? Manually logging in to the Observium server to generate graphs every time someone needs to investigate these SFP light levels is disruptive and time consuming. Just being able to prevent the broken "--alt-autoscale" option from being passed to rrd from within the web UI (issue #2) would help significantly. We have a Professional subscription. Corwin On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 2:03 PM Corwin Ziegler Hunts <corwin.ziegler.hunts@nextlevel.net <mailto:corwin.ziegler.hunts@nextlevel.net>> wrote: Pictures attached. On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 11:47 AM Adam Armstrong via observium <observium@lists.observium.org <mailto:observium@lists.observium.org>> wrote: so many words, but no pictures. Corwin Ziegler Hunts via observium wrote on 2024-06-25 19:13:
Hi Observium team, We're having issues with some of the generated graphs. Some of our devices report the light level received by SFPs using mW (rather than dBm). We are on the latest stable revision (13582). Issue 1: The graphs generated by Observium for these sensors usually show an excessive scale of at least -100 mW to 100 mW when the data in the specified time interval are entirely within the range 100 nW to 1 mW and usually only a small chunk of that. The calculated minimum and maximum values shown below the graph are correct. These graphs worked properly in the past with a prior version of Observium. Issue 2: Selecting and deselecting the Force Autoscale option appears to have no effect on the generated graph or displayed rrd graph command. Manually running the generated rrd graph command after removing the "--alt-autoscale" option results in a good graph. Here is the raw SNMP output for one of the these sensors showing a current value of 0.5560mW: ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorType.1000004631 = INTEGER: watts(6) ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorScale.1000004631 = INTEGER: milli(8) ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorPrecision.1000004631 = INTEGER: 4 ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorValue.1000004631 = INTEGER: 5560 ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorOperStatus.1000004631 = INTEGER: ok(1) Corwin _______________________________________________ observium mailing list --observium@lists.observium.org <mailto:observium@lists.observium.org> To unsubscribe send an email toobservium-leave@lists.observium.org <mailto:observium-leave@lists.observium.org>
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We updated to r13611. The graphs are much better now.
On Tue, Aug 6, 2024 at 9:58 AM Adam Armstrong via observium < observium@lists.observium.org> wrote:
Try r13609!
adam.
Corwin Ziegler Hunts via observium wrote on 2024-08-05 20:13:
These sensors show up as power sensors rather than as dBm (or SNR).
Could the "autoscale" button simply toggle whether the "--alt-autoscale" option is set? With the default state of the toggle coming from the current logic?
On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 8:09 PM Adam Armstrong adama@observium.org wrote:
I can't think of any really good ways to handle this. The way the graphs are generated doesn't make having a per-type autoscale setting easy.
The "autoscale" button in the UI forces it on for those graphs where it's normally off.
You could try removing the 'snr' from the case statement setting the scale min/max from html/includes/graphs/sensor/graph.inc.php and see if it improves rendering for these graphs (without breaking the rest of the snr graphs).
If that doesn't improve it, perhaps we need an explicit toggle to turn the autoscale off, though the logic for the autoscale decision code is already pretty messy and confusing.
adam.
Corwin Ziegler Hunts via observium wrote on 2024-07-27 00:54:
Is there any guidance towards resolving these issues? Manually logging in to the Observium server to generate graphs every time someone needs to investigate these SFP light levels is disruptive and time consuming. Just being able to prevent the broken "--alt-autoscale" option from being passed to rrd from within the web UI (issue #2) would help significantly. We have a Professional subscription.
Corwin
On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 2:03 PM Corwin Ziegler Hunts < corwin.ziegler.hunts@nextlevel.net> wrote:
Pictures attached.
On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 11:47 AM Adam Armstrong via observium < observium@lists.observium.org> wrote:
so many words, but no pictures.
Corwin Ziegler Hunts via observium wrote on 2024-06-25 19:13:
Hi Observium team,
We're having issues with some of the generated graphs. Some of our devices report the light level received by SFPs using mW (rather than dBm). We are on the latest stable revision (13582).
Issue 1: The graphs generated by Observium for these sensors usually show an excessive scale of at least -100 mW to 100 mW when the data in the specified time interval are entirely within the range 100 nW to 1 mW and usually only a small chunk of that. The calculated minimum and maximum values shown below the graph are correct. These graphs worked properly in the past with a prior version of Observium.
Issue 2: Selecting and deselecting the Force Autoscale option appears to have no effect on the generated graph or displayed rrd graph command. Manually running the generated rrd graph command after removing the "--alt-autoscale" option results in a good graph.
Here is the raw SNMP output for one of the these sensors showing a current value of 0.5560mW: ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorType.1000004631 = INTEGER: watts(6) ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorScale.1000004631 = INTEGER: milli(8) ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorPrecision.1000004631 = INTEGER: 4 ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorValue.1000004631 = INTEGER: 5560 ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorOperStatus.1000004631 = INTEGER: ok(1)
Corwin
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Hi,
for converting mW dom sensors to dBm, set option: Global Settings -> Entities -> (Ports) Convert Port DOM power sensors to dBm.
Corwin Ziegler Hunts via observium wrote on 25.06.2024 21:13:
Hi Observium team,
We're having issues with some of the generated graphs. Some of our devices report the light level received by SFPs using mW (rather than dBm). We are on the latest stable revision (13582).
Issue 1: The graphs generated by Observium for these sensors usually show an excessive scale of at least -100 mW to 100 mW when the data in the specified time interval are entirely within the range 100 nW to 1 mW and usually only a small chunk of that. The calculated minimum and maximum values shown below the graph are correct. These graphs worked properly in the past with a prior version of Observium.
Issue 2: Selecting and deselecting the Force Autoscale option appears to have no effect on the generated graph or displayed rrd graph command. Manually running the generated rrd graph command after removing the "--alt-autoscale" option results in a good graph.
Here is the raw SNMP output for one of the these sensors showing a current value of 0.5560mW: ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorType.1000004631 = INTEGER: watts(6) ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorScale.1000004631 = INTEGER: milli(8) ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorPrecision.1000004631 = INTEGER: 4 ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorValue.1000004631 = INTEGER: 5560 ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorOperStatus.1000004631 = INTEGER: ok(1)
Corwin
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We already have that setting enabled. However these sensors are not linked to ports in Observium (we wish they were). We are only able to identify the port involved from the sensor name.
On Sat, Jun 29, 2024 at 2:18 AM Mike Stupalov mike@observium.org wrote:
Hi,
for converting mW dom sensors to dBm, set option: Global Settings -> Entities -> (Ports) Convert Port DOM power sensors to dBm.
Corwin Ziegler Hunts via observium wrote on 25.06.2024 21:13:
Hi Observium team,
We're having issues with some of the generated graphs. Some of our devices report the light level received by SFPs using mW (rather than dBm). We are on the latest stable revision (13582).
Issue 1: The graphs generated by Observium for these sensors usually show an excessive scale of at least -100 mW to 100 mW when the data in the specified time interval are entirely within the range 100 nW to 1 mW and usually only a small chunk of that. The calculated minimum and maximum values shown below the graph are correct. These graphs worked properly in the past with a prior version of Observium.
Issue 2: Selecting and deselecting the Force Autoscale option appears to have no effect on the generated graph or displayed rrd graph command. Manually running the generated rrd graph command after removing the "--alt-autoscale" option results in a good graph.
Here is the raw SNMP output for one of the these sensors showing a current value of 0.5560mW: ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorType.1000004631 = INTEGER: watts(6) ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorScale.1000004631 = INTEGER: milli(8) ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorPrecision.1000004631 = INTEGER: 4 ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorValue.1000004631 = INTEGER: 5560 ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorOperStatus.1000004631 = INTEGER: ok(1)
Corwin
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-- Mike Stupalov, Discord channel: https://discord.gg/GjpNXKWm8W Observium Limited, https://observium.org
Corwin Ziegler Hunts wrote on 1.07.2024 19:17:
We already have that setting enabled. However these sensors are not linked to ports in Observium (we wish they were). We are only able to identify the port involved from the sensor name.
Hrm, than initially trouble in port association with sensors.
Pls make discovery debug output and send me (direct mail):
./discovery.php -dd -h <device>
On Sat, Jun 29, 2024 at 2:18 AM Mike Stupalov <mike@observium.org mailto:mike@observium.org> wrote:
Hi, for converting mW dom sensors to dBm, set option: Global Settings -> Entities -> (Ports) Convert Port DOM power sensors to dBm. Corwin Ziegler Hunts via observium wrote on 25.06.2024 21:13:
Hi Observium team, We're having issues with some of the generated graphs. Some of our devices report the light level received by SFPs using mW (rather than dBm). We are on the latest stable revision (13582). Issue 1: The graphs generated by Observium for these sensors usually show an excessive scale of at least -100 mW to 100 mW when the data in the specified time interval are entirely within the range 100 nW to 1 mW and usually only a small chunk of that. The calculated minimum and maximum values shown below the graph are correct. These graphs worked properly in the past with a prior version of Observium. Issue 2: Selecting and deselecting the Force Autoscale option appears to have no effect on the generated graph or displayed rrd graph command. Manually running the generated rrd graph command after removing the "--alt-autoscale" option results in a good graph. Here is the raw SNMP output for one of the these sensors showing a current value of 0.5560mW: ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorType.1000004631 = INTEGER: watts(6) ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorScale.1000004631 = INTEGER: milli(8) ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorPrecision.1000004631 = INTEGER: 4 ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorValue.1000004631 = INTEGER: 5560 ENTITY-SENSOR-MIB::entPhySensorOperStatus.1000004631 = INTEGER: ok(1) Corwin _______________________________________________ observium mailing list --observium@lists.observium.org <mailto:observium@lists.observium.org> To unsubscribe send an email toobservium-leave@lists.observium.org <mailto:observium-leave@lists.observium.org>
-- Mike Stupalov, Discord channel: https://discord.gg/GjpNXKWm8W Observium Limited, https://observium.org
Hi there I'm tring to get the SC300 Controller info, from Eaton Power, but the OS is retrieve as 'generic' OID: .1.3.6.1.4.1.1918.2.14.10
/ o OS Type generic o OS Group unix o SNMP Version v2c o Last discovery 2024-07-08 15:19:22 o Last duration 1.24 seconds/
Also no answer for:
/root@observium:/opt/observium# snmpget -v 2c -c cilbup 192.168.0.172 sysDescr.0 sysObjectID.0 -On sysDescr.0: Unknown Object Identifier (Sub-id not found: (top) -> sysDescr) sysObjectID.0: Unknown Object Identifier (Sub-id not found: (top) -> sysObjectID) root@observium:/opt/observium# /
I did download the MIBs definition under the included dirs but no way to get it recognized. So all information is not available. How can I get it work?
Regards
Andres
participants (5)
-
Adam Armstrong
-
antero.vasconcelos@truenet.pt
-
Corwin Ziegler Hunts
-
Ing. Andrés Gallo
-
Mike Stupalov