Stop sending me emails……

From: observium [mailto:observium-bounces@observium.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, January 09, 2015 7:44 AM To: Observium Network Observation System Subject: Re: [Observium] cheap much? re: trial

Not everyone has money to throw around. We're not all Level 3 or Tiscali with large world-wide networks.

My goal (and I'm still on track to do so) was to get things working in the open source version, then move to commercial once I was happy with it.

----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com

[Image removed by sender.]https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL[Image removed by sender.]https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb[Image removed by sender.]https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions[Image removed by sender.]https://twitter.com/ICSIL

________________________________ From: "Rob VanHooren" rob_vanhooren@mac.com To: observium@observium.org Sent: Friday, January 9, 2015 6:42:06 AM Subject: [Observium] cheap much? re: trial

really?

it’s what, a hundred quid?

for a whole year.

your bossfolk will collectively burn that up in under one minute of pedantic jawing at their next useless meeting.

and they can’t let you take a year’s flyer to gain added features for software that you already like?

do they make staff pay per cup for coffee/tea in the office kitchen too?

charge rental fees for using up their whiteboard markers?

sixpence per sheet in the company loo?

~boggle~

R.

On Jan 9, 2015, at 07:00, observium-request@observium.orgmailto:observium-request@observium.org wrote:

I would very much like to test this functionality in the commercial edition of Observium before purchasing a subscription - is this possible please?

_______________________________________________ observium mailing list observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

stop spamming the mailinglist and unsubscribe using the link at the bottom of very single email in this mailinglist you obviously subscribed to. geez.

On 09.01.15 13:46, Kenny, Missy wrote:

Stop sending me emails……

From: observium [mailto:observium-bounces@observium.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, January 09, 2015 7:44 AM To: Observium Network Observation System Subject: Re: [Observium] cheap much? re: trial

Not everyone has money to throw around. We're not all Level 3 or Tiscali with large world-wide networks.

My goal (and I'm still on track to do so) was to get things working in the open source version, then move to commercial once I was happy with it.

----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com

[Image removed by sender.]https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL[Image removed by sender.]https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb[Image removed by sender.]https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions[Image removed by sender.]https://twitter.com/ICSIL

________________________________ From: "Rob VanHooren" rob_vanhooren@mac.com To: observium@observium.org Sent: Friday, January 9, 2015 6:42:06 AM Subject: [Observium] cheap much? re: trial

really?

it’s what, a hundred quid?

for a whole year.

your bossfolk will collectively burn that up in under one minute of pedantic jawing at their next useless meeting.

and they can’t let you take a year’s flyer to gain added features for software that you already like?

do they make staff pay per cup for coffee/tea in the office kitchen too?

charge rental fees for using up their whiteboard markers?

sixpence per sheet in the company loo?

~boggle~

R.

On Jan 9, 2015, at 07:00, observium-request@observium.orgmailto:observium-request@observium.org wrote:

I would very much like to test this functionality in the commercial edition of Observium before purchasing a subscription - is this possible please?

_______________________________________________ observium mailing list observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium

_______________________________________________ observium mailing list observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium

Yeah, not everyone has the money. We are a small server hosting company and we sell very, very cheap instances of games etc.

It would be very hard to keep prices low if the sofware we used wouldn't be inexpensive. We are very happy with the Observium Community Edition and are looking forward to moving onto the Observium Professional.

Thanks to the people who make Observium and it's low prices possible!

Regards, Teemu Grönqvist Net9 Oy

9.1.2015, 14:44, Mike Hammett kirjoitti:

Not everyone has money to throw around. We're not all Level 3 or Tiscali with large world-wide networks.

My goal (and I'm still on track to do so) was to get things working in the open source version, then move to commercial once I was happy with it.

---

Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com

https://www.facebook.com/ICSILhttps://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalbhttps://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutionshttps://twitter.com/ICSIL

---

*From: *"Rob VanHooren" rob_vanhooren@mac.com *To: *observium@observium.org *Sent: *Friday, January 9, 2015 6:42:06 AM *Subject: *[Observium] cheap much? re: trial

really?

it’s what, a hundred quid?

for a whole year.

your bossfolk will collectively burn that up in under one minute of pedantic jawing at their next useless meeting.

and they can’t let you take a year’s flyer to gain added features for software that you already like?

do they make staff pay per cup for coffee/tea in the office kitchen too?

charge rental fees for using up their whiteboard markers?

sixpence per sheet in the company loo?

~boggle~

R.

On Jan 9, 2015, at 07:00, observium-request@observium.org
<mailto:observium-request@observium.org> wrote:

I would very much like to test this functionality in the
commercial edition of Observium before purchasing a subscription -
is this possible please?

---

observium mailing list observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium

---

observium mailing list observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium

*nods* I'm not against paying for a good product that does what I want. I was just telling the other poster that I if I paid for everything I test drove, I'd be broke. You don't buy every car you test drive.

----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com

----- Original Message -----

From: "Adam Armstrong" adama@memetic.org To: "Observium Network Observation System" observium@observium.org Sent: Friday, January 9, 2015 7:23:16 PM Subject: Re: [Observium] cheap much? re: trial

And of course, the low price is possible by encouraging the maximum number of people to pay, which in turn keeps the price low!

When we first started the subscription product, many people recommended we set the price at £1,000 with options scaling up to £10,000, but I always thought that was ridiculous. I wanted to price to be at a level any commercial operation could afford, since every commercial operation using Observium *should* have a subscription for updates. I wouldn't want to be the customer of a company using 6 month old software to dodge £150!

Whilst there's still might be some reason to encourage larger customers to pay more (you know who you are! :D), I don't really like the idea of removing features from other people to encourage them.

As for trials, well. Our product is the code. Once you have the code, you have no reason to pay, so we really can't provide a trail. But at the end of the day, the subscription was always meant to be about the updates, not the features. It's just reality that if we pushed the current subscription features to CE, half of our users would stop paying, we'd no longer be commercial viable and Observium would die.

That's life, folks! :D

adam.

------ Original Message ------ From: "Teemu Grönqvist" teemu.gronqvist@net9.fi To: "Observium Network Observation System" observium@observium.org Sent: 1/9/2015 6:48:53 AM Subject: Re: [Observium] cheap much? re: trial

Yeah, not everyone has the money. We are a small server hosting company and we sell very, very cheap instances of games etc.

It would be very hard to keep prices low if the sofware we used wouldn't be inexpensive. We are very happy with the Observium Community Edition and are looking forward to moving onto the Observium Professional.

Thanks to the people who make Observium and it's low prices possible!

Regards, Teemu Grönqvist Net9 Oy

9.1.2015, 14:44, Mike Hammett kirjoitti:

...

Not everyone has money to throw around. We're not all Level 3 or Tiscali with large world-wide networks.

My goal (and I'm still on track to do so) was to get things working in the open source version, then move to commercial once I was happy with it.

---

Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com

https://www.facebook.com/ICSILhttps://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalbhttps://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutionshttps://twitter.com/ICSIL

---

*From: *"Rob VanHooren" rob_vanhooren@mac.com *To: *observium@observium.org *Sent: *Friday, January 9, 2015 6:42:06 AM *Subject: *[Observium] cheap much? re: trial

really?

it’s what, a hundred quid?

for a whole year.

your bossfolk will collectively burn that up in under one minute of pedantic jawing at their next useless meeting.

and they can’t let you take a year’s flyer to gain added features for software that you already like?

do they make staff pay per cup for coffee/tea in the office kitchen too?

charge rental fees for using up their whiteboard markers?

sixpence per sheet in the company loo?

~boggle~

R.

On Jan 9, 2015, at 07:00, observium-request@observium.org mailto:observium-request@observium.org wrote:

I would very much like to test this functionality in the commercial edition of Observium before purchasing a subscription - is this possible please?

---

observium mailing list observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium

---

observium mailing list observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium

---

observium mailing list observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium

_______________________________________________ observium mailing list observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium

Because they don’t give a shit about how you license it. As long as it works and you’ll fix it if it breaks.

If you GPL the full version and provide ongoing SLA & upgrades for the software, it wont make much of a difference.

Holding back features between versions actually widens the gap between getting trial users converted to fully paid users, Mainly because the guys that try your software out want to see the whole thing, and not just a subset of features when they trial it.

Besides, how do you think organisations that have development budgets contribute to products if they’re not GPL? More often than not, the requirement for “open source” software within a company is because they want their developers to be able to add and submit features back to the product.     On 10 January 2015 at 3:50:27 pm, Adam Armstrong (adama@memetic.org) wrote:

I'm not really terribly cool with commercial organisations benefiting from the costlessness of open source software. Why should someone who'll pay Cisco $50k for a router get my work for free?

Well, we already proved this stupid "mek ur munies from support herpderp" belief common amongst open source zealots is abject nonsense.

We make more money from support as a commercial operation than we ever did as pure open source, because businesses value a commercial product more than a free one, and are more likely to buy support for it.

In 7 years of being open source we made maybe $1000 in voluntary donations, more than half from one person (and I'm pretty sure he drunk-donated every time).

This is demonstrable fact, and is the primary reason were now commercial.

RedHat are the exception that proves the rule. The fact that no one can think of anyone else (no, Oracle don't count) who makes money should be enough to demonstrate that open source doesn't pay, but for some reason people are still convinced it does.

I don't know. It's like the software equivalent of trickle-down economics. No amount of evidence can sway ideologues.

Adam.

Sent with AquaMail for Android http://www.aqua-mail.com

On 10 January 2015 13:46:02 Tom Laermans tom.laermans@powersource.cx wrote:

Sorry, that's the GPL-centric view that does not cover world reality at all.

Also, they already see the whole thing. That's the part (90%+!) they're supporting by sending money. The bonus they get should not be the reason to support the project to begin with. We offer trial licenses at 150 GBP. As a bonus you can test it for an entire year.

Lastly, I'm a bit confused why you think something needs to be GPL to be able to modify the source firstly, and the contribute the changes back second...

Tom

On 10/01/2015 13:15, Jacob Gardiner wrote:

...

Because they don’t give a shit about how you license it. As long as it works and you’ll fix it if it breaks.

If you GPL the full version and provide ongoing SLA & upgrades for the software, it wont make much of a difference.

Holding back features between versions actually widens the gap between getting trial users converted to fully paid users, Mainly because the guys that try your software out want to see the whole thing, and not just a subset of features when they trial it.

Besides, how do you think organisations that have development budgets contribute to products if they’re not GPL? More often than not, the requirement for “open source” software within a company is because they want their developers to be able to add and submit features back to the product.

On 10 January 2015 at 3:50:27 pm, Adam Armstrong (adama@memetic.org mailto:adama@memetic.org) wrote:

...

I'm not really terribly cool with commercial organisations benefiting from the costlessness of open source software. Why should someone who'll pay Cisco $50k for a router get my work for free?

---

observium mailing list observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium

---

---

observium mailing list observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium

Yes there are lots of examples. They're not necessarily relevant to Observium. And there's many examples where the same/similar model has worked very successfully.

Unfortunately I do think an awful lot of Observium' primary market would consist of operations that, for various reasons, would use the code and not bother with an kind of support contract. I've worked in those kind of businesses before, and been that admin who wanted to pay something to ensure the project continued, but couldn't get management to even donate small amounts for open source software we were using very heavily; simply because they didn't see much of an incentive to do so. There's a "Meh, it's open source, someone will continue building that project without our money" kind of mentality in a lot of business folk; because the reason they're good at business is that they're greedy.

Sadly it is very necessary to make it simple for them: You get what you want only after you pay X.

So my 10 cents: I think Observium is better as a commercial operation; and paid subscribers should have access to features, either exclusively or just earlier, than those who are not paid subscribers.

I didn't need to see every single feature work on my own installation before I went and paid for the subscription. The demo instance was good enough to justify paying the ***low cost*** involved without doing any kind of detailed trial or PoC. Hell, I'm not even using half of the features at this point, I paid for it because it's a good piece of software (ignoring some of the older code...) and I want it to not just continue to exist but continue to improve.

If demo.observium.org was improved to show off more features, e.g. routing/L2TP/etc, that might help address some of these trial related queries.

-Colin

On 11 January 2015 at 09:38, Jacob Gardiner jacob@jacobgardiner.com wrote:

There’s more out there than just RedHat.

You’re just being a bit ignorant in that regards.

-- Jacob Gardiner @jacobgardiner https://twitter.com/jacobgardiner

On 11 January 2015 at 9:27:23 am, Adam Armstrong (adama@memetic.org) wrote:

Well, we already proved this stupid "mek ur munies from support herpderp" belief common amongst open source zealots is abject nonsense.

We make more money from support as a commercial operation than we ever did as pure open source, because businesses value a commercial product more than a free one, and are more likely to buy support for it.

In 7 years of being open source we made maybe $1000 in voluntary donations, more than half from one person (and I'm pretty sure he drunk-donated every time).

This is demonstrable fact, and is the primary reason were now commercial.

RedHat are the exception that proves the rule. The fact that no one can think of anyone else (no, Oracle don't count) who makes money should be enough to demonstrate that open source doesn't pay, but for some reason people are still convinced it does.

I don't know. It's like the software equivalent of trickle-down economics. No amount of evidence can sway ideologues.

Adam.

Sent with AquaMail for Android http://www.aqua-mail.com

On 10 January 2015 13:46:02 Tom Laermans tom.laermans@powersource.cx wrote:

...

Sorry, that's the GPL-centric view that does not cover world reality at all.

Also, they already see the whole thing. That's the part (90%+!) they're supporting by sending money. The bonus they get should not be the reason to support the project to begin with. We offer trial licenses at 150 GBP. As a bonus you can test it for an entire year.

Lastly, I'm a bit confused why you think something needs to be GPL to be able to modify the source firstly, and the contribute the changes back second...

Tom

On 10/01/2015 13:15, Jacob Gardiner wrote:

Because they don’t give a shit about how you license it. As long as it works and you’ll fix it if it breaks.

If you GPL the full version and provide ongoing SLA & upgrades for the software, it wont make much of a difference.

Holding back features between versions actually widens the gap between getting trial users converted to fully paid users, Mainly because the guys that try your software out want to see the whole thing, and not just a subset of features when they trial it.

Besides, how do you think organisations that have development budgets contribute to products if they’re not GPL? More often than not, the requirement for “open source” software within a company is because they want their developers to be able to add and submit features back to the product.

On 10 January 2015 at 3:50:27 pm, Adam Armstrong (adama@memetic.org) wrote:

I'm not really terribly cool with commercial organisations benefiting from the costlessness of open source software. Why should someone who'll pay Cisco $50k for a router get my work for free?

---

observium mailing listobservium@observium.orghttp://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium

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observium mailing list observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium

---

observium mailing list observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium

---

observium mailing list observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium

If I spent $100 for everyone that had a possible solution for me, I'd have no $.

I'm not in the habit of wasting money.

----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com

----- Original Message -----

From: "Joseph L. Brunner" joe@affirmedsystems.com To: "Observium Network Observation System" observium@observium.org Sent: Friday, January 9, 2015 7:36:30 AM Subject: Re: [Observium] cheap much? re: trial

If you don’t have $100 bucks – what you’re selling probably has no value…

Thanks for sharing bro

From: observium [mailto:observium-bounces@observium.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, January 09, 2015 07:44 AM To: Observium Network Observation System Subject: Re: [Observium] cheap much? re: trial

Not everyone has money to throw around. We're not all Level 3 or Tiscali with large world-wide networks.

My goal (and I'm still on track to do so) was to get things working in the open source version, then move to commercial once I was happy with it.

----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com

----- Original Message -----

From: "Rob VanHooren" < rob_vanhooren@mac.com > To: observium@observium.org Sent: Friday, January 9, 2015 6:42:06 AM Subject: [Observium] cheap much? re: trial

really?

it’s what, a hundred quid?

for a whole year.

your bossfolk will collectively burn that up in under one minute of pedantic jawing at their next useless meeting.

and they can’t let you take a year’s flyer to gain added features for software that you already like?

do they make staff pay per cup for coffee/tea in the office kitchen too?

charge rental fees for using up their whiteboard markers?

sixpence per sheet in the company loo?

~boggle~

R.

On Jan 9, 2015, at 07:00, observium-request@observium.org wrote:

I would very much like to test this functionality in the commercial edition of Observium before purchasing a subscription - is this possible please?

_______________________________________________ observium mailing list observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium

_______________________________________________ observium mailing list observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium

It's 150 GBP, or 226 USD, the last I checked.

Adam charges me 1,000 GBP because he doesn't like me. ;-)

From: Mike Hammett <observium-list@ics-il.netmailto:observium-list@ics-il.net> Reply-To: Observium Network Observation System <observium@observium.orgmailto:observium@observium.org> Date: Friday, January 9, 2015 at 7:05 AM To: Observium Network Observation System <observium@observium.orgmailto:observium@observium.org> Subject: Re: [Observium] cheap much? re: trial

and last I checked, it was $250USD, not $100.

----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com

[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]https://twitter.com/ICSIL

________________________________ From: "Joseph L. Brunner" <joe@affirmedsystems.commailto:joe@affirmedsystems.com> To: "Observium Network Observation System" <observium@observium.orgmailto:observium@observium.org> Sent: Friday, January 9, 2015 7:36:30 AM Subject: Re: [Observium] cheap much? re: trial

If you don't have $100 bucks - what you're selling probably has no value...

Thanks for sharing bro

From: observium [mailto:observium-bounces@observium.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, January 09, 2015 07:44 AM To: Observium Network Observation System Subject: Re: [Observium] cheap much? re: trial

Not everyone has money to throw around. We're not all Level 3 or Tiscali with large world-wide networks.

My goal (and I'm still on track to do so) was to get things working in the open source version, then move to commercial once I was happy with it.

----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com

[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png]https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL[http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png]https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb[http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png]https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions[http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]https://twitter.com/ICSIL

________________________________ From: "Rob VanHooren" <rob_vanhooren@mac.commailto:rob_vanhooren@mac.com> To: observium@observium.orgmailto:observium@observium.org Sent: Friday, January 9, 2015 6:42:06 AM Subject: [Observium] cheap much? re: trial

really?

it's what, a hundred quid?

for a whole year.

your bossfolk will collectively burn that up in under one minute of pedantic jawing at their next useless meeting.

and they can't let you take a year's flyer to gain added features for software that you already like?

do they make staff pay per cup for coffee/tea in the office kitchen too?

charge rental fees for using up their whiteboard markers?

sixpence per sheet in the company loo?

~boggle~

R.

On Jan 9, 2015, at 07:00, observium-request@observium.orgmailto:observium-request@observium.org wrote:

I would very much like to test this functionality in the commercial edition of Observium before purchasing a subscription - is this possible please?

_______________________________________________ observium mailing list observium@observium.orgmailto:observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium

_______________________________________________ observium mailing list observium@observium.orgmailto:observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium

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