Yeah, if only it was as simple as that...

Our customer base isn't entirely VAT-registered businesses, and even if it was, it is now impossible to sell to the EU without being VAT and VAT MOSS registered and filing quarterly VAT MOSS returns, even if the VAT return for my home country is blank. Fuck that noise, life is way too fucking short to quadruple our record keeping and verification workload because Google and Amazon are bastards and the EU are idiots.

I already spent way more time dealing with administrative bullshit than I do writing code these days.

The potential solution is to use a 3rd party to handle sales, which we may well do once we can verify that it won't shift revenue location and force us to be VAT registered.

It's not too bad for us, we can just drop 30% of revenue and it just means Tom's kid doesn't get new shoes this year. It's really bad for people who sell £2.50 knitting patterns on etsy and are being forced to register for VAT, hire a VAT accountant, file VAT and VAT MOSS returns 4 times a year and deal with all of the record keeping, verification and VAT calculation bullshit for a few grand a year. (hint: they're not, they're closing shop instead...)

adam.

------ Original Message ------ From: "Gavin Henry" ghenry@surevoip.co.uk To: "Observium Network Observation System" observium@observium.org Sent: 12/29/2014 11:26:25 AM Subject: Re: [Observium] Subscriptions in the EU

Hi Adam/all,

This only applies to businesses selling to consumers, not business to business:

https://www.gov.uk/vat-on-digital-services-in-the-eu

Thanks.

On 29 December 2014 at 11:59, Tylla tylla_at_memetic.org@tylla.hu wrote:

...

Hi Adam!

Is this valid also for companies in the EU?

Thanks, Tylla

On 12/29/2014 08:54 AM, Adam Armstrong wrote:

...

Hi Guys,

If you're in the EU and you've had (or have in the future) your PayPal payment profile canceled, it's because of the EU VAT issues I posted about last week.

After the 31st of December we will no longer be able to sell to customers in the EU (except the UK) and any payments from within the EU after that date will be refused.

It's not clear when or if the EU will rectify these regulations, and the workarounds I've investigated so far won't work for us.

If you're due for renewal in Jan/Feb/Mar or so and want to retain your sub, I recommend you do it before the 31st.

Thanks, adam.

---

observium mailing list observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium

---

observium mailing list observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium

-- Kind Regards,

Gavin Henry.

Come to communist Russia, we have even more absurd laws, but most of them can be ignored as long you don't make millions and not involve in politics.

On 30/12/14 03:14, Adam Armstrong wrote:

We don't have to charge companies VAT, but we have to collect data to prove that they are companies, so the same restrictions apply.

Basically the same burden of paperwork exists whether you're selling b2c or b2b. We also have a significant number of users who either pay with personal credit cards or are not VAT-registered companies, which further complicated matters. We simply can't deal with the regulatory requirements.

Because they are fucking stupid.

adam.

------ Original Message ------ From: "Tylla" tylla_at_memetic.org@tylla.hu To: observium@observium.org Sent: 12/29/2014 5:59:55 AM Subject: Re: [Observium] Subscriptions in the EU

...

Hi Adam!

Is this valid also for companies in the EU?

Thanks, Tylla

On 12/29/2014 08:54 AM, Adam Armstrong wrote:

...

Hi Guys,

If you're in the EU and you've had (or have in the future) your PayPal payment profile canceled, it's because of the EU VAT issues I posted about last week.

After the 31st of December we will no longer be able to sell to customers in the EU (except the UK) and any payments from within the EU after that date will be refused.

It's not clear when or if the EU will rectify these regulations, and the workarounds I've investigated so far won't work for us.

If you're due for renewal in Jan/Feb/Mar or so and want to retain your sub, I recommend you do it before the 31st.

Thanks, adam.

---

observium mailing list observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium

---

observium mailing list observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium

---

observium mailing list observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium