Dropout and graph problems in graphs.............!
Is there anyone who is monitoring 200 devices in Observium?
Because I am facing dropout and gap problem in graphs.
CPU and Physical Memory utilization also goes more than 80%. Server detail is here:-
Machine Type :- VM ( Guest OS) Physical Memory :- 12GB Swap Size :- 4GB No. Of CPU :- 8
Note:- We are monitoring 200 devices in Observium.
[cid:image001.png@01D116E8.95AF6A60]
......... With Best Regards, Chaman Rathee Mob. No:- +91-9560055816
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Privileged or confidential information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), please delete this message and kindly notify the sender by an emailed reply. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of Progression and its associate entities shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by them.
Hi,
the first suspect is not enough or too many concurrent pollers. The second one is crappy disk IO. And the third is crappy network.
I monitor around 300 different devices on a 8-core/8GB VM under kvm. Disks are on a ZFS server and served to the kvm boxes through NFSv4. CPU is usually at 14% and peaks (occur during discovery) are around 30%. The mysql server has been optimized for the workload and we’re using rrdcache.
There’s 8 concurrent pollers. Zero gaps in graphs.
— Niilo Kajander nk@kajander.fi
On 04 Nov 2015, at 06:37, Chaman Rathee chaman.rathee@progression.com wrote:
Is there anyone who is monitoring 200 devices in Observium?
Because I am facing dropout and gap problem in graphs.
CPU and Physical Memory utilization also goes more than 80%. Server detail is here:-
Machine Type :- VM ( Guest OS) Physical Memory :- 12GB Swap Size :- 4GB No. Of CPU :- 8
Note:- We are monitoring 200 devices in Observium.
<image001.png>
……… With Best Regards, Chaman Rathee Mob. No:- +91-9560055816
Privileged or confidential information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), please delete this message and kindly notify the sender by an emailed reply. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of Progression and its associate entities shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by them.
observium mailing list observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium
Hello Niilo, Thanks for reply. For my scenario,
How will I optimize mysql server ? Please suggest some step or parameter.
How will I check that I am using rrdcache or not ? If not then How will I enable it?
……… With Best Regards, Chaman Rathee Mob. No:- +91-9560055816
-----Original Message----- From: observium [mailto:observium-bounces@observium.org] On Behalf Of Niilo Kajander Sent: 04 November 2015 12:52 To: Observium Network Observation System Subject: Re: [Observium] Dropout and graph problems in graphs.............!
Hi,
the first suspect is not enough or too many concurrent pollers. The second one is crappy disk IO. And the third is crappy network.
I monitor around 300 different devices on a 8-core/8GB VM under kvm. Disks are on a ZFS server and served to the kvm boxes through NFSv4. CPU is usually at 14% and peaks (occur during discovery) are around 30%. The mysql server has been optimized for the workload and we’re using rrdcache.
There’s 8 concurrent pollers. Zero gaps in graphs.
— Niilo Kajander nk@kajander.fi
On 04 Nov 2015, at 06:37, Chaman Rathee chaman.rathee@progression.com wrote:
Is there anyone who is monitoring 200 devices in Observium?
Because I am facing dropout and gap problem in graphs.
CPU and Physical Memory utilization also goes more than 80%. Server detail is here:-
Machine Type :- VM ( Guest OS) Physical Memory :- 12GB Swap Size :- 4GB No. Of CPU :- 8
Note:- We are monitoring 200 devices in Observium.
<image001.png>
……… With Best Regards, Chaman Rathee Mob. No:- +91-9560055816
Privileged or confidential information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), please delete this message and kindly notify the sender by an emailed reply. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of Progression and its associate entities shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by them.
observium mailing list observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium
_______________________________________________ observium mailing list observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium
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Hi,
I recommend installing and running ‘mysqltuner’ to see what it recommends. Proper settings depend on the environment and may need adjustment as time goes by.
If you’re not sure whether you’re using rrdcache or not then you’re not using it. This[1] blog post seems like a good starting point.
[1] http://blog.best-practice.se/2014/10/using-rrdcached-with-observium.html
— Niilo Kajander nk@kajander.fi
On 04 Nov 2015, at 10:49, Chaman Rathee chaman.rathee@progression.com wrote:
Hello Niilo, Thanks for reply. For my scenario,
How will I optimize mysql server ? Please suggest some step or parameter.
How will I check that I am using rrdcache or not ? If not then How will I enable it?
……… With Best Regards, Chaman Rathee Mob. No:- +91-9560055816
-----Original Message----- From: observium [mailto:observium-bounces@observium.org] On Behalf Of Niilo Kajander Sent: 04 November 2015 12:52 To: Observium Network Observation System Subject: Re: [Observium] Dropout and graph problems in graphs.............!
Hi,
the first suspect is not enough or too many concurrent pollers. The second one is crappy disk IO. And the third is crappy network.
I monitor around 300 different devices on a 8-core/8GB VM under kvm. Disks are on a ZFS server and served to the kvm boxes through NFSv4. CPU is usually at 14% and peaks (occur during discovery) are around 30%. The mysql server has been optimized for the workload and we’re using rrdcache.
There’s 8 concurrent pollers. Zero gaps in graphs.
— Niilo Kajander nk@kajander.fi
On 04 Nov 2015, at 06:37, Chaman Rathee chaman.rathee@progression.com wrote:
Is there anyone who is monitoring 200 devices in Observium?
Because I am facing dropout and gap problem in graphs.
CPU and Physical Memory utilization also goes more than 80%. Server detail is here:-
Machine Type :- VM ( Guest OS) Physical Memory :- 12GB Swap Size :- 4GB No. Of CPU :- 8
Note:- We are monitoring 200 devices in Observium.
<image001.png>
……… With Best Regards, Chaman Rathee Mob. No:- +91-9560055816
Privileged or confidential information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), please delete this message and kindly notify the sender by an emailed reply. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of Progression and its associate entities shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by them.
observium mailing list observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium
observium mailing list observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium
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Hello Niilo, Thanks for update. Once I do, then I will get back to you.
……… With Best Regards, Chaman Rathee Mob. No:- +91-9560055816
-----Original Message----- From: observium [mailto:observium-bounces@observium.org] On Behalf Of Niilo Kajander Sent: 04 November 2015 14:39 To: Observium Network Observation System Subject: Re: [Observium] Dropout and graph problems in graphs.............!
Hi,
I recommend installing and running ‘mysqltuner’ to see what it recommends. Proper settings depend on the environment and may need adjustment as time goes by.
If you’re not sure whether you’re using rrdcache or not then you’re not using it. This[1] blog post seems like a good starting point.
[1] http://blog.best-practice.se/2014/10/using-rrdcached-with-observium.html
— Niilo Kajander nk@kajander.fi
On 04 Nov 2015, at 10:49, Chaman Rathee chaman.rathee@progression.com wrote:
Hello Niilo, Thanks for reply. For my scenario,
How will I optimize mysql server ? Please suggest some step or parameter.
How will I check that I am using rrdcache or not ? If not then How will I enable it?
……… With Best Regards, Chaman Rathee Mob. No:- +91-9560055816
-----Original Message----- From: observium [mailto:observium-bounces@observium.org] On Behalf Of Niilo Kajander Sent: 04 November 2015 12:52 To: Observium Network Observation System Subject: Re: [Observium] Dropout and graph problems in graphs.............!
Hi,
the first suspect is not enough or too many concurrent pollers. The second one is crappy disk IO. And the third is crappy network.
I monitor around 300 different devices on a 8-core/8GB VM under kvm. Disks are on a ZFS server and served to the kvm boxes through NFSv4. CPU is usually at 14% and peaks (occur during discovery) are around 30%. The mysql server has been optimized for the workload and we’re using rrdcache.
There’s 8 concurrent pollers. Zero gaps in graphs.
— Niilo Kajander nk@kajander.fi
On 04 Nov 2015, at 06:37, Chaman Rathee chaman.rathee@progression.com wrote:
Is there anyone who is monitoring 200 devices in Observium?
Because I am facing dropout and gap problem in graphs.
CPU and Physical Memory utilization also goes more than 80%. Server detail is here:-
Machine Type :- VM ( Guest OS) Physical Memory :- 12GB Swap Size :- 4GB No. Of CPU :- 8
Note:- We are monitoring 200 devices in Observium.
<image001.png>
……… With Best Regards, Chaman Rathee Mob. No:- +91-9560055816
Privileged or confidential information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), please delete this message and kindly notify the sender by an emailed reply. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of Progression and its associate entities shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by them.
observium mailing list observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium
observium mailing list observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium
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A quick way of finding if your disk is to slow is to check 'top' on your linux-box during polling. look for 'wa' in the CPU-part, this is "percent of cpu-time spent on waiting for disk I/O" If its more then a couple of percent during polling then your CPU just spend a lot of time waiting for a slow disk http://i.imgur.com/difrKlR.png
/Markus
2015-11-04 12:04 GMT+01:00 Chaman Rathee chaman.rathee@progression.com:
Hello Niilo, Thanks for update. Once I do, then I will get back to you.
……… With Best Regards, Chaman Rathee Mob. No:- +91-9560055816
-----Original Message----- From: observium [mailto:observium-bounces@observium.org] On Behalf Of Niilo Kajander Sent: 04 November 2015 14:39 To: Observium Network Observation System Subject: Re: [Observium] Dropout and graph problems in graphs.............!
Hi,
I recommend installing and running ‘mysqltuner’ to see what it recommends. Proper settings depend on the environment and may need adjustment as time goes by.
If you’re not sure whether you’re using rrdcache or not then you’re not using it. This[1] blog post seems like a good starting point.
[1] http://blog.best-practice.se/2014/10/using-rrdcached-with-observium.html
— Niilo Kajander nk@kajander.fi
On 04 Nov 2015, at 10:49, Chaman Rathee chaman.rathee@progression.com
wrote:
Hello Niilo, Thanks for reply. For my scenario,
How will I optimize mysql server ? Please suggest some step or
parameter.
How will I check that I am using rrdcache or not ? If not then How will
I enable it?
……… With Best Regards, Chaman Rathee Mob. No:- +91-9560055816
-----Original Message----- From: observium [mailto:observium-bounces@observium.org] On Behalf Of
Niilo Kajander
Sent: 04 November 2015 12:52 To: Observium Network Observation System Subject: Re: [Observium] Dropout and graph problems in
graphs.............!
Hi,
the first suspect is not enough or too many concurrent pollers. The
second one is crappy disk IO. And the third is crappy network.
I monitor around 300 different devices on a 8-core/8GB VM under kvm.
Disks are on a ZFS server and served to the kvm boxes through NFSv4. CPU is usually at 14% and peaks (occur during discovery) are around 30%. The mysql server has been optimized for the workload and we’re using rrdcache.
There’s 8 concurrent pollers. Zero gaps in graphs.
— Niilo Kajander nk@kajander.fi
On 04 Nov 2015, at 06:37, Chaman Rathee chaman.rathee@progression.com
wrote:
Is there anyone who is monitoring 200 devices in Observium?
Because I am facing dropout and gap problem in graphs.
CPU and Physical Memory utilization also goes more than 80%. Server detail is here:-
Machine Type :- VM ( Guest OS) Physical Memory :- 12GB Swap Size :- 4GB No. Of CPU :- 8
Note:- We are monitoring 200 devices in Observium.
<image001.png>
……… With Best Regards, Chaman Rathee Mob. No:- +91-9560055816
Privileged or confidential information may be contained in this
message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), please delete this message and kindly notify the sender by an emailed reply. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of Progression and its associate entities shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by them.
observium mailing list observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium
observium mailing list observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium
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Hello Niilo, It doesn’t work for me. Still it is consuming more than 70% CPU and 75% Memory. Graphs also have gaps and dropout.
Basically I have installed rrdcached service and make required changes and enable rrdcached service. I also increase below defined parameter for my.conf :-
< innodb_buffer_pool_size = 6GB < innodb_buffer_pool_instances = 6 < < max_heap_table_size = 30MB < tmp_table_size = 30MB
Please do needful to give solution on it.
……… With Best Regards, Chaman Rathee Mob. No:- +91-9560055816
-----Original Message----- From: observium [mailto:observium-bounces@observium.org] On Behalf Of Chaman Rathee Sent: 04 November 2015 16:34 To: 'Observium Network Observation System' Subject: Re: [Observium] Dropout and graph problems in graphs.............!
Hello Niilo, Thanks for update. Once I do, then I will get back to you.
……… With Best Regards, Chaman Rathee Mob. No:- +91-9560055816
-----Original Message----- From: observium [mailto:observium-bounces@observium.org] On Behalf Of Niilo Kajander Sent: 04 November 2015 14:39 To: Observium Network Observation System Subject: Re: [Observium] Dropout and graph problems in graphs.............!
Hi,
I recommend installing and running ‘mysqltuner’ to see what it recommends. Proper settings depend on the environment and may need adjustment as time goes by.
If you’re not sure whether you’re using rrdcache or not then you’re not using it. This[1] blog post seems like a good starting point.
[1] http://blog.best-practice.se/2014/10/using-rrdcached-with-observium.html
— Niilo Kajander nk@kajander.fi
On 04 Nov 2015, at 10:49, Chaman Rathee chaman.rathee@progression.com wrote:
Hello Niilo, Thanks for reply. For my scenario,
How will I optimize mysql server ? Please suggest some step or parameter.
How will I check that I am using rrdcache or not ? If not then How will I enable it?
……… With Best Regards, Chaman Rathee Mob. No:- +91-9560055816
-----Original Message----- From: observium [mailto:observium-bounces@observium.org] On Behalf Of Niilo Kajander Sent: 04 November 2015 12:52 To: Observium Network Observation System Subject: Re: [Observium] Dropout and graph problems in graphs.............!
Hi,
the first suspect is not enough or too many concurrent pollers. The second one is crappy disk IO. And the third is crappy network.
I monitor around 300 different devices on a 8-core/8GB VM under kvm. Disks are on a ZFS server and served to the kvm boxes through NFSv4. CPU is usually at 14% and peaks (occur during discovery) are around 30%. The mysql server has been optimized for the workload and we’re using rrdcache.
There’s 8 concurrent pollers. Zero gaps in graphs.
— Niilo Kajander nk@kajander.fi
On 04 Nov 2015, at 06:37, Chaman Rathee chaman.rathee@progression.com wrote:
Is there anyone who is monitoring 200 devices in Observium?
Because I am facing dropout and gap problem in graphs.
CPU and Physical Memory utilization also goes more than 80%. Server detail is here:-
Machine Type :- VM ( Guest OS) Physical Memory :- 12GB Swap Size :- 4GB No. Of CPU :- 8
Note:- We are monitoring 200 devices in Observium.
<image001.png>
……… With Best Regards, Chaman Rathee Mob. No:- +91-9560055816
Privileged or confidential information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), please delete this message and kindly notify the sender by an emailed reply. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of Progression and its associate entities shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by them.
observium mailing list observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium
observium mailing list observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium
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You need a faster server. You're simply trying to poll too many devices with not enough resources.
adam.
On 05/11/2015 06:50:26, Chaman Rathee chaman.rathee@progression.com wrote: Hello Niilo, It doesn’t work for me. Still it is consuming more than 70% CPU and 75% Memory. Graphs also have gaps and dropout.
Basically I have installed rrdcached service and make required changes and enable rrdcached service. I also increase below defined parameter for my.conf :-
< innodb_buffer_pool_size=""> < innodb_buffer_pool_instances="">
< max_heap_table_size=""> < tmp_table_size="">
Please do needful to give solution on it.
……… With Best Regards, Chaman Rathee Mob. No:- +91-9560055816
-----Original Message----- From: observium [mailto:observium-bounces@observium.org] On Behalf Of Chaman Rathee Sent: 04 November 2015 16:34 To: 'Observium Network Observation System' Subject: Re: [Observium] Dropout and graph problems in graphs.............!
Hello Niilo, Thanks for update. Once I do, then I will get back to you.
……… With Best Regards, Chaman Rathee Mob. No:- +91-9560055816
-----Original Message----- From: observium [mailto:observium-bounces@observium.org] On Behalf Of Niilo Kajander Sent: 04 November 2015 14:39 To: Observium Network Observation System Subject: Re: [Observium] Dropout and graph problems in graphs.............!
Hi,
I recommend installing and running ‘mysqltuner’ to see what it recommends. Proper settings depend on the environment and may need adjustment as time goes by.
If you’re not sure whether you’re using rrdcache or not then you’re not using it. This[1] blog post seems like a good starting point.
[1] http://blog.best-practice.se/2014/10/using-rrdcached-with-observium.html
— Niilo Kajander nk@kajander.fi
On 04 Nov 2015, at 10:49, Chaman Rathee wrote:
Hello Niilo, Thanks for reply. For my scenario,
How will I optimize mysql server ? Please suggest some step or parameter.
How will I check that I am using rrdcache or not ? If not then How will I enable it?
……… With Best Regards, Chaman Rathee Mob. No:- +91-9560055816
-----Original Message----- From: observium [mailto:observium-bounces@observium.org] On Behalf Of Niilo Kajander Sent: 04 November 2015 12:52 To: Observium Network Observation System Subject: Re: [Observium] Dropout and graph problems in graphs.............!
Hi,
the first suspect is not enough or too many concurrent pollers. The second one is crappy disk IO. And the third is crappy network.
I monitor around 300 different devices on a 8-core/8GB VM under kvm. Disks are on a ZFS server and served to the kvm boxes through NFSv4. CPU is usually at 14% and peaks (occur during discovery) are around 30%. The mysql server has been optimized for the workload and we’re using rrdcache.
There’s 8 concurrent pollers. Zero gaps in graphs.
— Niilo Kajander nk@kajander.fi
On 04 Nov 2015, at 06:37, Chaman Rathee wrote:
Is there anyone who is monitoring 200 devices in Observium?
Because I am facing dropout and gap problem in graphs.
CPU and Physical Memory utilization also goes more than 80%. Server detail is here:-
Machine Type :- VM ( Guest OS) Physical Memory :- 12GB Swap Size :- 4GB No. Of CPU :- 8
Note:- We are monitoring 200 devices in Observium.
……… With Best Regards, Chaman Rathee Mob. No:- +91-9560055816
Privileged or confidential information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), please delete this message and kindly notify the sender by an emailed reply. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of Progression and its associate entities shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by them.
observium mailing list observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium
observium mailing list observium@observium.org http://postman.memetic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/observium
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Hi All,
I have attached a snapshot of observium graph from 01 to 03 o'clock at morning. In this graph, My graph is missing. As I diagnose that:-
1.) At same timestamp, I checked that my cron service will run or not .But we found that cron run at same command as I checked in server syslog file. Please take a look at attached file syslogOfServer.PNG file.
2.) Normally, My devices are poll after every five minutes. But when I checked poller.php logs for devices ( like eccwiq etc.) in observium.log file at server. I found that these device are not polled at same timestamp.
I also checked data in rrd file of device using rrdtool fetch rrd_file AVERAGE. Then found that there Is no data at same timestamp.
So, I found that cron run successfully but in observium.log there is no polling for that device.Also no data in rrd file.
Please help me to diagnose the problem.
……… With Best Regards, Chaman Rathee Mob. No:- +91-9560055816
-----Original Message----- From: Chaman Rathee [mailto:chaman.rathee@progression.com] Sent: 05 November 2015 12:20 To: 'Observium Network Observation System' Subject: RE: [Observium] Dropout and graph problems in graphs.............!
Hello Niilo, It doesn’t work for me. Still it is consuming more than 70% CPU and 75% Memory. Graphs also have gaps and dropout.
Basically I have installed rrdcached service and make required changes and enable rrdcached service. I also increase below defined parameter for my.conf :-
< innodb_buffer_pool_size = 6GB < innodb_buffer_pool_instances = 6 < < max_heap_table_size = 30MB < tmp_table_size = 30MB
Please do needful to give solution on it.
……… With Best Regards, Chaman Rathee Mob. No:- +91-9560055816
-----Original Message----- From: observium [mailto:observium-bounces@observium.org] On Behalf Of Chaman Rathee Sent: 04 November 2015 16:34 To: 'Observium Network Observation System' Subject: Re: [Observium] Dropout and graph problems in graphs.............!
Hello Niilo, Thanks for update. Once I do, then I will get back to you.
……… With Best Regards, Chaman Rathee Mob. No:- +91-9560055816
-----Original Message----- From: observium [mailto:observium-bounces@observium.org] On Behalf Of Niilo Kajander Sent: 04 November 2015 14:39 To: Observium Network Observation System Subject: Re: [Observium] Dropout and graph problems in graphs.............!
Hi,
I recommend installing and running ‘mysqltuner’ to see what it recommends. Proper settings depend on the environment and may need adjustment as time goes by.
If you’re not sure whether you’re using rrdcache or not then you’re not using it. This[1] blog post seems like a good starting point.
[1] http://blog.best-practice.se/2014/10/using-rrdcached-with-observium.html
— Niilo Kajander nk@kajander.fi
On 04 Nov 2015, at 10:49, Chaman Rathee chaman.rathee@progression.com wrote:
Hello Niilo, Thanks for reply. For my scenario,
How will I optimize mysql server ? Please suggest some step or parameter.
How will I check that I am using rrdcache or not ? If not then How will I enable it?
……… With Best Regards, Chaman Rathee Mob. No:- +91-9560055816
-----Original Message----- From: observium [mailto:observium-bounces@observium.org] On Behalf Of Niilo Kajander Sent: 04 November 2015 12:52 To: Observium Network Observation System Subject: Re: [Observium] Dropout and graph problems in graphs.............!
Hi,
the first suspect is not enough or too many concurrent pollers. The second one is crappy disk IO. And the third is crappy network.
I monitor around 300 different devices on a 8-core/8GB VM under kvm. Disks are on a ZFS server and served to the kvm boxes through NFSv4. CPU is usually at 14% and peaks (occur during discovery) are around 30%. The mysql server has been optimized for the workload and we’re using rrdcache.
There’s 8 concurrent pollers. Zero gaps in graphs.
— Niilo Kajander nk@kajander.fi
On 04 Nov 2015, at 06:37, Chaman Rathee chaman.rathee@progression.com wrote:
Is there anyone who is monitoring 200 devices in Observium?
Because I am facing dropout and gap problem in graphs.
CPU and Physical Memory utilization also goes more than 80%. Server detail is here:-
Machine Type :- VM ( Guest OS) Physical Memory :- 12GB Swap Size :- 4GB No. Of CPU :- 8
Note:- We are monitoring 200 devices in Observium.
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……… With Best Regards, Chaman Rathee Mob. No:- +91-9560055816
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participants (4)
-
Adam Armstrong -
Chaman Rathee -
Markus Klock -
Niilo Kajander